Editor's Note:

Chinese leaders reiterated the significance of the combat against corruption during the annual "two sessions" that have just concluded. According to the latest Corruption Perception Index (CPI) released by Transparency International, China dropped five spots to 80th place out of 176 countries, whereas Denmark is the least corrupt country in the world. What are the most important factors for Denmark's clean government? Is there anything that China can learn from Denmark's anti-corruption effort? Global Times (GT) reporter Ling Yuhuan talked with Friis Arne Petersen (Petersen), Denmark's ambassador to China, on these issues.

GT: The Nordic model enjoys a good reputation in China, due to high transparency of individual income and clear-cut laws and regulations. According to the CPI released in December 2012, Denmark is the least corrupt country in the world. What are the most important factors here?

Petersen: I think it is the political culture together with our society's openness, on all issues, not just economic issues. This level of transparency is very important to us. Another important factor is also that people believe it is not very attractive to make money in an illegal or criminal way. People will lose their dignity.

We also accept that we have high wages for public servants; we believe in social equality and social justice; we don't want to steal from each other, which is what corruption basically is.

We have to realize that China is many times bigger than Denmark for example, so it is much more difficult to attain this level of accountability in China than in Denmark. But it is something that the society certainly should strive for.

We've been very fortunate in many years in Denmark to very successfully create a strong welfare system. That's a very attractive thing, because it gives every citizen security for life, but we can still be very dynamic and still have a private sector. It's still attractive to excel, to advance, to have ambitions, to work hard, to accomplish things.

In the US, where I was ambassador before, the emphasis is too much on the private sector; they neglect the public sector. The US is, in many ways, a very good society. I just happen to believe that the Danish model is better, because we not only have the private sector with the dynamism, the ambition, the wish to excel, but we also have this public sector, where we don't allow society to create income inequality or poor people to suffer.

GT: Chinese public's calls for government's fight against corruption are especially prominent at the moment. How do you see the public outcry for anti-corruption in China at the moment? Has Denmark also experienced such a stage?

Petersen: We didn't, because we've been very fortunate to have almost a corruption-free society in all our history. We have to go very far back in Danish history to the 1850s, when we really had corruption. Back then we had a monarch and a class of aristocrats, who ran the country. That was a different society before constitutional monarchy was installed in Denmark.

I think the challenge for China is when you really go down in depth with these corruption problems. It's important that there is a civil society and a lot of media that dare talk about the corruption and wrong-doing.

I know a lot of Chinese citizens might do that anonymously, for understandable reasons, but I think the best society is one that tries to eradicate corruption by letting people not be afraid to say who they are and to fight corruption under their own identity.

GT: Many experts argue that the lack of transparency of officials' property contributes to the difficulties facing China's corruption control. Do the Danish people have access to detailed information of officials' property?

Petersen: It is not just officials' property that is accessible and transparent in Denmark. Property deeds of private citizens are also public and accessible in Denmark. Everyone who owns a house or an apartment or a countryside residence has to own it in their own name, and one can access all that information through easy accessible public channels.

Societies have to find a balance. China is one where there is a lot of privacy but very little transparency in some areas. We have moved down a road where transparency prevails. Privacy is important, but the same rules have to apply to everyone.

GT: Unlike China which has severe punishments for corruption, including the death penalty, on the books, the Nordic countries prefer a milder way. The highest penalty for corruption in Finland is only four years of imprisonment. How can the Nordic countries control corruption so effectively while imposing such mild penalties? Do you think severe punishment is a very effective way to combat corruption?

Petersen: I think differences in our legal systems are very big in general. We represent a culture that really believes in preventing crime. We don't have very long sentences. We think that prisons can be dangerous for society. If you imprison people, especially young people for small, minor offenses, they can meet some hard criminals, who have done serious crimes. This interaction between hardened criminals and first time offenders might affect the first time offenders in a bad way.

Different systems have their historical and social context. China is such a big and diverse country, and we have just 5.5 million people, and have a very homogeneous, transparent and high-income society.

GT: Mutual trust between the public and the government is essential to the Nordic model. But in China, local governments are facing a crisis of public credibility. What do you think are the factors that contribute to the Danish public's high trust toward the government? And what can be learned by the Chinese side?

Petersen: Again, I would try to make this simple and say that we Danes are a small country and are homogeneous. We trust each other, because we think we know each other; we are highly educated; we want to be part of a good society and trust government.

In Denmark, the government also trusts the individual citizens to be responsible. People want to honor their commitment, honor agreements, towards friends and all contacts in general. You don't let people down; you don't break your word. You have confidence as the basic, very important glue in Danish society. You trust people will do what they promise to do. You trust you can make business with people, and that they are law-abiding. In Denmark, if you make a deal with another business person, you trust you will get the product you agree upon.